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Camvac remote switch problem - SORTED AGAIN

AndyP

AndyP

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My twin motor Camvac has started to cut out a few minutes after been switched on but only when both fans are on and only when plugged into the remote socket. I use it with both fans running all the time as it is outside the workshop and only accessible by ladder.
In case it was getting hot I checked the state of the drum and filters. Drum had about an eggcup full of fine dust. Cloth bag was dusty so I shook it out. The paper filters were clean and the cloth covers over each fan also clean.
After it has cut out I can restart it on one fan but as soon as the other one (either one) is switched on it cuts out. If I run it direct from the wall socket it does not cut out at all.

The remote socket is rated at 3680w and the Camvac has two 1000w fans. I have had both the Camvac and the remote socket for about 2 years and the problem only start 2 weeks ago.

The remote is this one,
i_587851.jpg


Full details for the french speakers here

The remote socket is obviously the cause of the problem but what is going on and why? No point in my replacing it if I am going to have the same problem.
 
I had a similar problem, Andy, with a different make but TBH I think you will find that al of these are made in Remote Control City (as opposed to Zip City or Sock City).

Poorly designed, down to the lowest possible production cost. Throw it away and buy another. It will go wrong as well most likely.
 
RogerS":2xsc2gc0 said:
I had a similar problem, Andy, with a different make but TBH I think you will find that al of these are made in Remote Control City (as opposed to Zip City or Sock City).

Poorly designed, down to the lowest possible production cost. Throw it away and buy another. It will go wrong as well most likely.
Click to expand...

Ah I see. Are there no UK or at least European made ones available? I don't mind installing a 3pin socket if necessary but would prefer not to if poss.
 
Andy,

I think Roger has hit the nail squarely on the head.
I have the problem that the buttons on the remote stop working, all down to the low cost, driven by the bean counters over ruling the engineers best design practice.
 
I think then that I will try and rig a pull switch (if I can find one here) from the celling in the middle of the workshop as at €30 a pop every two years is not economical for me.
 
That should be great for that use, the contacts are heavy duty as it is designed for switching shower units which draw lots of amps.
 
Thanks Dave, I have found some pull cord switches here but only rated at 5amp or less which would be wholly unsuitable.
 
Thanks Dave, I have found some pull cord switches here but only rated at 5amp or less which would be wholly unsuitable.
 
Andy, Does the switch end of your remote system make an audible click when it switches on or off? (you don't need a load plugged in but it must be in a powered socket)

If not it is possibly triac based and might not like the inductive load of your camvac. If it does make a noise then it is likely to have a relay inside which if correctly rated, should be fine and have no ability to cause the camvac to cut out.

Bob
 
Bob, yes it does make a faint but audible click when switched on with the remote. So there must be a problem with the relay, or it is not correctly rated. I would guess that it is not possible to tell.

So the question I need to ask myself is should I replace with another one, or use a pull switch, as the auto units are way to expensive for my pocket.
 
Ah, yes I had forgotten that. Having just re-read the thread I think I will stick with the 50amp pull cord switch. In my small workshop and with my long arms the cord can be quite short so as not to get in the way but still within reach of all the working areas.

Known as a Interrupteur à tirette or Interrupteur à cordette I still cant't find a "french" one. Just links on Amazon.fr to UK companies that supply what looks like the MK one. Strange. I will have a quick look in Bricoman on the way to school in a moment for a butchers.
 
Andyp":1divvyno said:
....
....I will have a quick look in Bricoman on the way to school in a moment for a butchers.
Click to expand...

I wish Homebase and B&Q also sold meat ;) :D
 
I use my twin motor Record DX5000 using a remote switch I bought from Maplins years ago - still going strong.
I now see they sell a control kit for £190!

Rod
 
I know Rod, especially as Bob said in Terry's thread:-
9fingers":38uoag7r said:
Andyp":38uoag7r said:
Oh dear. I have a twin motor Camvac rated ar 2kw ( 2x1kw) which I switch on via a remote controlled socket. Is this an accident waiting to happen?
I never even thought to ask before, ignorance is bliss.
Click to expand...

Screamy- screechy brush motors have far lower mass armatures and so get up to speed faster than their more discreet induction motor relatives so you are far less likely to have a problem with your remote switch.

Bob
Click to expand...

I am torn if I could be sure that I simply have a faulty relay in the remote socket I don't mind replacing it.
 
Andy,

Have you looked at the toolstation web site? On the GB one they have a Crabtree 50amp one.
 
First place I looked Dave, alas the .fr site does not carry the same items. Not a problem I can order in Euros from Screwfix although minimum postage is €15 as opposed to £5 in the UK. May have to wait until next visit.

If I go down the pull cord switch route how is this for an idea? A double surface mount box with the MK switch on one side and a normal socket on the other. Run the power from the switch to the socket. That way I do not need to hard wire the Camvac into the switch and can keep it portable.

Is it possible to to mount to single units onto a double patress box? If not I will just have to have two separate boxes.

Does any of that make sense?
 
Andy. You cannot fit two single items on a dual width box. You will need two singles. But don't you want one UK box and one French box?

Unless I misunderstand your proposal.

So much easier to put a decent relay in a box and have done with it to my way of thinking.

Bob
 
Thought so Bob, thanks. Yes pull cord would need to control French socket.

I'll have to give the relay in a box idea some more thought. There is no NVR switch on the Camvac so my solution would need to be different to Terry's. The Camvac is also outside the workshop so any remote relay device would have to be inside the workshop with the Camvac power lead plugged into it.
Help would be needed at a molecular level :D
 
justaskin":24thc3uk said:
Hi Andy P

Take a look at Screwfix they have a Electric shower pull cord switch rated at 45A with a neon indicter Sub £10

their outlets are all over the UK even Dover.

Richard
Click to expand...

lol .. Check his location :-) .. just a quick ferry ride then ....
 
justaskin":iosfkp6z said:
Hi Andy P

Take a look at Screwfix they have a Electric shower pull cord switch rated at 45A with a neon indicter Sub £10

their outlets are all over the UK even Dover.

Richard
Click to expand...

Richard, thanks for that, But in the interests of self learning and enrichment I might try and follow Terry's example that anyone can do the seemingly impossible with the right advise and guidance and an awful lot of patience.
 
Tusses":15ezicro said:
justaskin":15ezicro said:
Hi Andy P

Take a look at Screwfix they have a Electric shower pull cord switch rated at 45A with a neon indicter Sub £10

their outlets are all over the UK even Dover.

Richard
Click to expand...

lol .. Check his location :-) .. just a quick ferry ride then ....
Click to expand...

I cross the water 3 or 4 times a year so not really a problem but I may just take the hi-tec route.
 
9fingers":30w8rsx4 said:
There you go!

Bob
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob, although I was worried you might produce something like that.

Let’s see if I understand it.
1) My existing RC socket plugs into an existing wall socket.
2) A box containing the relay plugs into the RC socket.
3) The Camvac plugs into the box containing the relay.

What I would like to do is use a surface mounted double socket like this http://www.castorama.fr/store/Double-pr ... ction=jump
One socket is used for the Camvac, the other socket to be removed and will house the relay, I‘ll have to check that it will fit.

All that remains for me to understand is how to connect the relay to
a) the cable with a plug on the end that plugs in to the RC Socket and
b) the socket that the Camvac will plug into

Am I getting there?
 
Nothing to worry about Andy just follow the picture!

Yes you have got it. Connections as per DaveL/Wizzard thread using crimp on spade connectors.
blue ones should fit the cable OK internal wiring should be 1.5mm^2 minimum stranded wire

The coil driving wires don't need to be that thick electrically but they give mechanical strength and mean that you only need one size of crimp. Buy or borrow a decent ratchet crimping tool to make proper joints.

Bob
 
Are those relays available from a more conventional source that does not require Paypal. What are the key specs that I need to search for? I am sure all these letters and numbers mean something but apart from 220v and 8 pin I am lost. (JQX-30F-2Z Coil AC 220V 8 Pin DPDT 2NO 2NC Electronmagnetic Relay).

When the time comes will you be able to translate you picture into where the live, neutral and earth wires go, in and out of the relay (please stop calling it a coil as it confuses me :D ).
 
Is amazon any more acceptable to you Andy?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/JQX-30F-Plug-G ... JQX-30F-2Z

Relays have contacts that do the work and relays have coils that operate them - get used to it :lol:
Diagrams convey information and the symbols look like the things they represent eg coil looks like a spring.

The relay will usually have a diagram on it telling you which connection is which.

DPDT = double pole double throw NO = normally open NC = normally closed
other related abbreviations

SPDT, DPST you can work out from above and CO = changeover All just the same as abbreviations electrical and light switches. No magic no witchcraft :lol:

Incidentally when I use paypal on ebay, the first choice is to pay by paypal account or credit card. Do you see that option?
Everyone to their own choice but having used Paypal for many years they have been flawless and on a couple of times provided full refunds on frustrated deals as well as interacting seamlessly with ebay.

hth

Bob

Amazon.fr version at higher rip off price

https://www.amazon.fr/Plug-Type-Puissan ... JQX-30F-2Z
 
OK Bob, relais ordered. Might be a month before it gets here.

Will work out how to wire it when it arrives but it seems to me there are 8 terminals on the relais and I will only have 3 wires in and 3 wires out.
 
Andyp":325ku4m6 said:
OK Bob, relais ordered. Might be a month before it gets here.

Will work out how to wire it when it arrives but it seems to me there are 8 terminals on the relais and I will only have 3 wires in and 3 wires out.
Click to expand...
Well actually it is 4 wires in and 2 out?? plus the earth which passes straight through.

Pop your thinking head on Andy and all might become clear. Clue: look at the diagram on the picture of the product and compare with my diagram (nb the modern (dare I say EU) way of drawing a coil is a rectangle not the older (easier) symbol I have used.
second clue: what happens to terminals on switches you don't need in house wiring?

I'm not being deliberately difficult but reckon if you work things out for yourself, you will possibly understand and remember better than if I say "do this" and "do that" etc?

Bob
 
9fingers":2fdhnrxb said:
Andyp":2fdhnrxb said:
OK Bob, relais ordered. Might be a month before it gets here.

Will work out how to wire it when it arrives but it seems to me there are 8 terminals on the relais and I will only have 3 wires in and 3 wires out.
Click to expand...
Well actually it is 4 wires in and 2 out?? plus the earth which passes straight through.

Pop your thinking head on Andy and all might become clear. Clue: look at the diagram on the picture of the product and compare with my diagram (nb the modern (dare I say EU) way of drawing a coil is a rectangle not the older (easier) symbol I have used.
second clue: what happens to terminals on switches you don't need in house wiring?

I'm not being deliberately difficult but reckon if you work things out for yourself, you will possibly understand and remember better than if I say "do this" and "do that" etc?

Bob
Click to expand...

I'd promised myself to park this tread until the relais arrives but then I read
9fingers":2fdhnrxb said:
Well actually it is 4 wires in and 2 out??Bob
Click to expand...
Well I know I failed the GCHQ quiz and every O Level I took and this makes make me feel even more stupider (I know). Where does the 4th wire come from? The relay will connect to the RC Socket (or so I thought) via a conventional mains lead, brown (live) blue (neutral) and yellow/green (earth). Even I can count to 3. :D
 
Methinks (methought?) you confuse "wires" with "cables" but even allowing for that I cant get three cables in and three cables out so I'm confused at your confusion :lol:

Inputs are remote switched L&N plus unswitched L&N =4

Outputs are relay switched L&N =2

plus direct through earth making 5 in, 3 out strictly

Now although that makes a total of 8 wires and you have 8 pins on the relay, this does NOT mean you use all 8 on the relay.

"for tonights homework............" :lol:

Bob
 
Andy

Just read this whole thread, I'm here cheering you on from the sidelines :eusa-clap:. And my relay suggested a one month delivery but actually came much sooner, so hopefully that will be the case for you too.

Terry.
 
Thanks Terry, I am worried that Bob must think I am taking the pi$$. But at the moment I could read your thread a million times and still not get it. I have read a number of "how to wire a relay tutorials" but none of them do what I am planning.
When the relay gets here I will see if it is obvious as Bob suggests.

Oh how I wish that I had paid more attention to science/phsyics at school. Maybe greek would have helped too :D
 
I haven't really paid much attention to this , as Bob is more than capable :-)
I know electronics .. so I'll have a read though, and see if I can explain in "baby steps" .. or just another perspective :)

won't be tonight though .. maybe tomorrow
 
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