• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Staircase upgrade - ...

Mike G":mqrd7twj said:
I'm thinking something along the lines of the Lello Bookstore, Porto. Subtle. Understated......
Click to expand...

Rog's wife should be pleased with one like that, score huge points :lol: :lol: :lol:


I missed seeing that as my colleague and I found a nice open air eating place next to the river that served EXCELLENT chips and beer 8-) 8-)
 
Roger, just in case you've not seen this already. A really good, informative video showing making of terminals and wreath for a sapele handrail. Best video I've seen on the practicalities. (Well, the only one, tbh.)

[youtube]o_t3PtrcCUQ[/youtube]

Or you could just hire the guy!
 
AndyT":dw4ylf8z said:
Roger, just in case you've not seen this already. A really good, informative video showing making of terminals and wreath for a sapele handrail. Best video I've seen on the practicalities. (Well, the only one, tbh.)

[youtube]o_t3PtrcCUQ[/youtube]

Or you could just hire the guy!
Click to expand...

Or find a company with a 5-axis CNC machine. :eusa-whistle:
 
AndyT":2krcmvr2 said:
Wow! Are those machines dangerous at all? :o
Click to expand...

Pretty dangerous, not only do you have the spinning cutter which is scraping rather than cutting so there's a fair amount of force involved he is also using the spinning shaft to bear against as a sort of "fence" in a way, as well as maneuvering the piece in both axes while cutting.

Another one that was commonly used was a "Dumpling Block" which was essentially a dome-shaped piece of timber with a ~2 1/2" hole bored down the centre of it which was then affixed to the spindle moulder table with the shaft poking through the hole. You'd then attach a cutter block with either a fixed ring-fence or bearing ring on the shaft (Usually using slotted collars with a bearing race incorporated into one of the collars) and mould the section of double curvature handrailing very carefully bearing onto the ring-fence or bearing ring.

Here's an advert for one of those spindle moulders fitted with a French Spindle and a foot for curved work:

BRRdnD7.png
 
The Yorkshire guy, absolutely unbelievable particularly the three-dimensional bandsawing, I thought I did some, let’s say unconventional/stretching a machine to its furthest possible uses but he takes the biscuit. Not sure why but I assumed he was about to spray finish the handrail, nice to see him French polishing it.
Those old moulding machine cutters killed so many people when the bits came loose and flew out like bullets usually at stomach height – doesn’t bear thinking about. How it Took so long for, I think the Germans to come up with cutters held him with pins I can’t really imagine. Ian
 
RogerS":174v6y17 said:
AndyT":174v6y17 said:
Roger, just in case you've not seen this already. A really good, informative video showing making of terminals and wreath for a sapele handrail. Best video I've seen on the practicalities. (Well, the only one, tbh.)

[youtube]o_t3PtrcCUQ[/youtube]

Or you could just hire the guy!
Click to expand...

Or find a company with a 5-axis CNC machine. :eusa-whistle:
Click to expand...

Nah! Yorkshire CAD Pro and a spokeshave! :D
 
Meanwhile, back on thread... ;)

I can see now that it's going to have to be a right-angle turn as I can't see any elegant/strong way to provide a quarter-circular support where I intended. The support can be easily fashioned..just that it will jut out and look strange.

I jacked up both the upper string and also used folding wedges to support the top of the lower string underneath. Who needs an Acrow prop, anyway ?



Cut a housing in the new 'external' newel post to take the top of the bottom flight stringer, made up some epoxy.



Clamped and screwed to the bottom of the upper flight stringer and inserted some 14mm Domino's.



It was somewhat reassuring to gently release the car jack and see the weight being safely taken on the new newel pot. All left to harden overnight. Current thoughts are to carve what's left of the old Newel D stub into something that looks like the end of the bottom tread.

This morning I had a good long hard look all the way round the remains of Newel D and as far as I could see, any fixings were largely cosmetic. So I set to with a chisel and carbide metal blades in the Fein.


and it wasn't long before I could feel the whole stub moving about and clearly not fulfilling any useful function. After 30 minutes or so satisfying 'demolition' the stub dropped out of the bottom with a thud....felt like I'd extracted a wisdom tooth.

Dead chuffed that I've got rid of two complete newel posts.





So now I've got to make good. This riser has seen better days and is twisted and split.



Although the bottom tread is housed in the stringer, I'll still support the bullnose. I'll jigsaw down the length of that riser and remove it. Conveniently the front of the new riser will sit over the extreme end of the boards on the quarter-landing and so if I put a rebate on the bottom of the new riser, it will hide the grotty ends of the boards.

The bullnose and adjacent tapered tread on the quarter-landing platform can be taken out and new ones made to extend all the way across. Just that I'm not sure now quite how to finish off that end by the new newel post to take the ends of these new treads.

Any suggestions, sketches gratefully received.

We're getting there and its looking much, much better than I could have hoped for IMO. :)
 
Not being shy of putting myself up for ridicule and as no other ideas have been forthcoing, I have a suggestion for filling that hole.



Commission a wood carver to sculpt an animal ( an upright owl perhaps ).
 
Thanks Andy but Chief Designer wouldn't agree to that. I've come up with an idea that I think will (a) work and (b) look good. Currently working on replacing that broken riser and trying to minimise disruption to the plasterboard underneath the top flight.

Not sure I'll get as far as this area today as we're off out to brave the snow.
 
Andyp":fxmv8szy said:
don't forget the camera
Click to expand...

Damp squib, the snow. Our hill had been hand-gritted by someone. When we came out of the supermarket in Hexham it had been snowing a blizzard...ahah, I thought. The hill out of the town up to the A69 was proving tricky for lorries and I was really looking forward to our hill. But not to be. Localised to Hexham. :(
 
As I discovered yesterday, 2” of snow and slush, having the best winter tyres, or even 4wd, is no guarantee of getting home unscathed.

Pillock with a trailer couldn’t get enough traction when pulling out of side turn in front of me. No problem for me slowed to a halt with room to spare. But the pratt behind me ended up alongside me on the grass verge!
 
Things have ground to a bit of a halt.

I was planning to replace the short bullnose tread and half-width one behind it with a single bullnose tread of sensible width. But things didn't seem to be working out correctly on the quarter-landing and once I stuck the laser level on it, I could see why. I'd assumed that the muppet who built and installed them had actually used a spirit level.



Nothing for it but to rip up the rest of the old boards and relay with some oddments that will never be used on a proper floor. They will be painted anyway with runner down the middle of the treads. The joint on one of the bearers will be covered by a runner. Full length board at the back nearest the wall as the runner won't extend that far. Needs sanding.





Spindles have been chosen and ordered. Never got any email back from a possible woodturner I found on the web.

The first-pass reply from the handrail supplier is disappointing and also bloody expensive. I have a sense that they are proposing a very angular affair and not what we want. Have gone back for a revised quote/clarification but not optimistic. I can see me carving. I know that that is what you all wanted to hear and see.
 
This was always going to be a whole bundle of fun!
 
I want one if these

[youtubessl]pbKDks4uLKU[/youtubessl]

He reminds me of Benny Hill.
 
Andyp":1eqi2o4y said:
You need to use the other youtube button Rog, the one ending in ssl.
Click to expand...

Thanks Andy. Must try and keep up with things ! :D
 
Decision has been made.

Painted spindles - SWMBO has offered to paint them...result!

Handrail - made by me :o American walnut. This is the profile we're going for. Will need to get cutters made. Simple volute at the bottom.





Hold on for the ride. :lol:
 
Roger that is very similar to the profile as I used. AWB should make it easier to carve.
 
PAC1":1bsczpt7 said:
Roger that is very similar to the profile as I used. AWB should make it easier to carve.
Click to expand...

I'll know who to come to for advice ;)
 
I'm starting to draw up the cutters required and have stalled. If you look at the top of the handrail in the LH photo, it looks wide relative to the overall width.


Almost the entire width of the handrail.


And if you look at this next photo, then the vertical rounded mould looks relatively shallow in depth. Photo RH here



So maybe overall width 75mm. Vertical radius projection 8-10mm maybe ?

But if you look at the width of the top in the RH photo below, it looks much narrower relative to the overall width.


Optical illusion maybe ?

Any suggestions as to the overall aspect ratio of the handrail ? I'm thinking maybe 75 x 75mm
 
Looking at the side profile of the volute in the right-hand side of the second picture, and eyeballing the horizontal distance from the edge to the highest point of the curve on top, it looks just slightly more than half the total height of the piece. Assuming that it's been widened slightly, but not too much, I'd say that points to an aspect ration for the handrail section that's pretty close to square if it isn't exactly.

I'd agree with optical illusion regarding the other photo, taking as read that all the pictures are of the same handrail. The top of the rounded projection on the side is well-lit from above, making it look closer to the same plane as the top than it actually is, while its actual orientation is much closer to square-on to the camera, meaning it takes up more space in the image. If you cover up the right-hand half of the right-hand image - i.e. the bottom part of the handrail closest to the camera - then the parts higher up present a more realistic idea of the actual shape.
 
Excellent..many thanks Stephen for confirming my gut feel.
 
Have a look at Whitehill cutters they will give you some ideas for proportions and maybe even have a standard cutter
 
I've got a copy of "Mouldings and Turned Woodwork of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries" by Tunstall Small & Christopher Woodbridge, which is usually a pretty good reference for this kind of thing as it's a collection of 1:1 size sections and details, including handrails.

Although none look like your selected handrail (although they are similar in design), I could take a couple of pictures of the hand rail pages if you want for reference?
 
Trevanion":215ltak1 said:
I've got a copy of "Mouldings and Turned Woodwork of the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries" by Tunstall Small & Christopher Woodbridge, which is usually a pretty good reference for this kind of thing as it's a collection of 1:1 size sections and details, including handrails.

Although none look like your selected handrail (although they are similar in design), I could take a couple of pictures of the hand rail pages if you want for reference?
Click to expand...

Oooh...yes, please, Dan.
 
DVKCsIw.png

iOKgsZH.png

JmG07sU.png

For Scale, No 6 on Sheet 10 is 110mm tall and 55mm wide halved, so it's a 110mm square handrail. If you want measurements of anything in particular, let me know.
 
Thanks Dan.

Project now officially on hold as I have no carving tools and everyone is out of stock of what I need. Covid? Brexit ? Both ? Technical term- cock.
 
No your wrong Roger, it’s not Covid or Brexit it’s the Mike G effect, he takes up carving and the whole world wants to get in on it ha ha
But actually, just short of 1000 people have looked at that carved bookcase, and how many have been inspired, versus how many sets of wood carving chisels there are likely to be for sale in the country, interesting thought that it could’ve had some effect. Ian
 
AndyT":thrbml64 said:
Have you tried Toolnut? Their website does say "huge range of carving tools in stock".

https://www.toolnut.co.uk/
Click to expand...

Thanks for that, Andy. Not heard of them before. Will have a look.

You've also jogged my memory to give G&S Timber a visit as they also seem to have a good range and more importantly I can look and touch if they have stuff in stock.
 
I can't get my head around the problem at the bottom tread. It's to do with the level change required. At the quarter turn (photo below) it's not an issue as the handrail can sweep down and then gracefully curve into the line of the straight part for the bottom flight. It will feel right and more importantly, look right.


But that won't work at the bottom, I don't think. The line of the stringer will continue all the way past the edge of the tread before the base rail would reach the level of the bottom tread.


So I have to transition somehow from the slope on the stringer to the horizontal of the volute. It's a big jump.


Even allowing for one more spindle, it's still a large jump.



The only thing I can think of is to 'spindle down' the stringer as far as aesthetically it makes sense and then add extensions to the spindle bottoms on that support the volute so that they are level with the last spindle on the stringer.

Any other suggestions very gratefully received.

TIA
 
Commercial spindles are always supplied over length, Roger. Have you measured yours? It may well be that you have to cut quite a bit off the ones which sit on the string, leaving you enough length of those sitting on the bottom step.
 
You need to keep your volute spindles as long as possible to suit, perhaps even having longer ones made if they're still too short. As Mike said, you're typically cutting about 4" off the length of each spindle anyway on the stringer to get your 900mm height measurement at the top of the handrail.

Example image stolen off google:

6b7b4c900a7e252a765955882c129288.jpg
 
Thanks chaps! Problem solved. I thought the spindles were a bit long at 900mm !
 
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