• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

The Orangerie - duff glass-fibre-coating REPAIRED

Andyp":2i4gdirq said:
9fingers":2i4gdirq said:
So did you go for a 1 piece ridge in the end Roger? Can't see a joint in your photos. Bob
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Keep up Bob... :)

RogerS":2i4gdirq said:
The ridge board glueing up. Option A with domino's is what I opted for.
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:oops: Sorry I've been very busy lately working in a flat I bought this week and not been reading everything on here lately.

Bob
 
Doug":38rj03d6 said:
Don’t you use dust extraction on your domino Rog?
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If I'm doing a lot at the same time then yes. But the hose gets in my way if you're just doing 1 every 20 minutes or so.
 
Thanks, Michael.

All the main rafters fitted





What's vexing me is the compound angle I need for the hip rafter. I know it's there and available in the SU drawing but I can't fathom how to get it and so have asked DaveR if he can help.



Gut feel suggests that it's 45 degrees and 15 degrees but a trial cut doesn't seem to work.

 
It's not going to be 15 deg if that is the angle of the others as the corner one will be longer - running on the diagonal and hence shallower angled. Bit of trigonometry required... or sketchup.
 
9fingers":1x4gzzwd said:
I make it that the corner rafter will be about 10.73 degrees.

Bob
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:eusa-clap: :eusa-clap: Seriously impressed.

DaveR and SketchUp also came up with that figure.
 
RogerS":3ubvk0iv said:
..........Gut feel suggests that it's 45 degrees and 15 degrees but a trial cut doesn't seem to work........
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That's the usual way of doing it on site: a trial cut in scrap on each end of a batten, offered up and scribed. Adjust, offer it up again to check, then transfer the measurements and angles to the real piece.
 
9fingers":2olihw52 said:
I make it that the corner rafter will be about 10.73 degrees.
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Which is fine, until one of the pieces of wood involved has a slight twist or bow or cup.
 
I was happy with 10.7 ! Where I got the neighbouring timber positions correct, it worked a treat.

Photos to come tomorrow. Too damn cold to hold the camera steady.
 
Too damn cold to hold the camera steady.
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Roger, I was going to write "Wimp! Oi werr opp ladder 'ere yesterday in T-shirt!" ..which I was, then remembered crossing the moors just a wee bit south of you recently and marvelling at a 5-8 degree downturn in air temp as I drove up and over :o 'Mazin' how the Pennines create micro-climates. Even more so above 1500ft in the Lakes when we got there. Snow unmelted since...? Took a LOT of warm clobber even low down in Borrowdale on the Cumbria Way. So, no raspberry M8; been there, felt that, 'specially since arthritis took up lodgings in me thumbs. :evil:

Sam
 
A quick resume from the past week.

Getting the angle right



Here's the photo I wanted to take...bit out of focus, I'm afraid.



I had been thinking about glueing some supporting wedges up there but realised that with the taper, the hips were self-locking.

The bottom connection of the hip rafter gave cause for some head-scracthing as it's all on a slope



And the cock-up fairy kept paying a visit :oops:



And the jack rafters also seemed to have some new angles here and there :eusa-think:



But finally managed to finish the main part of the lantern





And here's the 'Workshop in the Sky' :D I realised that I'd need to tweak nearly every 'closer' because the spacing between the rafters wasn't exact (I lack Mike G's skills/patience with this sort of stuff). I lugged them up there to save time in not running up and down the ladder forever. Saved me countless hours. Just had to be careful walking past them.

The planer is because the heights of the rafters also vary down by the upstand :oops: Talking of which, I needn't have made it as high as I have. That would have saved time, timber and money !


And the closers fitted



I'll be using Compriband along the top of them.

I have to confess that I've not enjoyed doing this especially on the size I'm working on. I've found it very hard to get things square. In theory I should have used a closer as a spacer between the rafter footings but this meant that if the first rafter was not square then neither would all the rest be. I dunno. I think that I will have to make two or three full size sheets of ply to check the glazing sizes. The rafters being only 45mm wide I don't have much margin for error.

And the sharp eyed among you will have noticed the absence of something. Yup..the scaffold. Just as well as two of the feet were now floating ! I wondered why it was rocking.



It was a toss-up between knowing that I always had a handhold available no matter where I was on the roof against continually bashing my head.

Lastly - I have a question. How long should I leave the overhang of the rafter feet ? As far as I can see there's nothing directly influencing this but I could well be missing something critical.
 
RogerS":2mu5pf5e said:
.......Lastly - I have a question. How long should I leave the overhang of the rafter feet ? As far as I can see there's nothing directly influencing this but I could well be missing something critical.
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You can even make it work with no overhang at all, so you're right, there's nothing critical about this decision. Make it on aesthetic grounds. Personally, I reckon the ones second and third up from the bottom of your second last photo look about right, whereas the lowest rafter looks too long.
 
Mike G":nhd3ljxf said:
RogerS":nhd3ljxf said:
.......Lastly - I have a question. How long should I leave the overhang of the rafter feet ? As far as I can see there's nothing directly influencing this but I could well be missing something critical.
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You can even make it work with no overhang at all, so you're right, there's nothing critical about this decision. Make it on aesthetic grounds. Personally, I reckon the ones second and third up from the bottom of your second last photo look about right, whereas the lowest rafter looks too long.
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Thank, Mike. Just the job.



Think I've cracked the linseed oil paint - the second coat has to go on very thinly. Lots and lots of brushing. You'd be surprised just how much you can spread it.

Just as well as I'd forgotten the pitfall aka getting it on something non-porous because it never dries (or takes ages) and so you end up transferring it to anything else that touches the drips...usually also non-porous...and so it's transferred to something else ad infinitum !
 
All painted up (including me !). Temporary heavy-duty gauge clear polythene roof to allow light in. Took me three goes to actually get something that really was 'heavy-duty'. Now know all about 'gauge' of polythene sheet and what really is 'heavy-duty' as opposed to 'wishful thinking' by some suppliers.


Templates made for the hip ends. In hindsight I should have made the templates first then adjusted the rafters to match. That little mistake will cost me as the glazier charges per template.

Knocked up some ply 'mock' glass for the main rafters...more than a bit embarrassed to say the spacing not as consistent as it should be but Hey Ho.



So now to do the wall panels. Having been up on the roof with some gusty winds, it does wobble a little so wondering about putting some infill panels to stiffen it up. Be a shame as it will spoil the overall design and perhaps I'm worrying unnecessarily since it survived all those storms we had.
 
The glass stiffens everything up, Roger. I really wouldn't worry too much about a little movement now. Saying that, the hip rafters should be doing quite a lot of bracing, so is it that one or two of those don't fit as well as they should?

If you really are worried about movement, a nice approach might be some steel tie rods as diagonal raised ties, like this:

Uqflytb.png

The rods have a threaded end, and meet in a ring in the middle where the nuts can be tightened to tension everything up. Something along those lines should make a better job than some blanked off panels, I reckon.
 
Andyp":15g5wktu said:
Curious to know how the glass will be fitted.
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So am I :lol:

Glazing tape. Can't decide whether to fit it from the inside or the outside TBH. When I was making windows, the cutters I had made gave me a faux putty line on the outside. Glass then fitted in from the inside...never had any leaks. Simple bead to finish off inside. Avoids having to putty in the glass.

But here, one wouldn't necessarily expect to find putty so :eusa-think:

Andyp":15g5wktu said:
Will it be DG?
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Single. Pointless the extra cost as we'll not be heating it.
 
Mike G":2qbjdgex said:
The glass stiffens everything up, Roger. I really wouldn't worry too much about a little movement now. Saying that, the hip rafters should be doing quite a lot of bracing, so is it that one or two of those don't fit as well as they should?

If you really are worried about movement, a nice approach might be some steel tie rods as diagonal raised ties, like this:

Uqflytb.png

The rods have a threaded end, and meet in a ring in the middle where the nuts can be tightened to tension everything up. Something along those lines should make a better job than some blanked off panels, I reckon.
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Thanks, Mike..that's reassuring. The hip rafters are well-screwed down and wedged in place.
 
You may recall the original design what seems like several lifetimes ago.

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Well, here's the protoype which has been signed off by LOML.



Originally the bottom panel was much reduced in height and so replaced with the current size. Looks much better IMO. The top middle rail is not in the final position !

The plan is to cookie-cut these and replicate all the way round. I can't decide though whether or not to make them sightly undersized heightwise and then wedge them (the fixed panels that is) in place as I know that there is some minor variation in height of the openings.

Either that or assemble them (glue/screw) in place to take up the variations OR faff about planing them down to fit. :eusa-think:
 
Andyp":celrcsx5 said:
Are those round windows what you have been doing in MDF?
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I wish ! No, mine is the bottom panel. I outsourced the oval window shapes to Chrispy to do on his magic CNC machine.
 
I would be going smaller and using packers.
It'll allow the structure to move as it wishes without putting to much stress on the glazing.

It'll also make it easier to replace a section at a later date if you wanted/needed to.
 
There doesn't seem like alot of glue area for tenons/wedges between the rails and stiles. If some of the doors will be opening I'd definitely look at having the panels fixed or tight to help brace the door- that's assuming the doors are to be painted and the panels will be from ultra stable tricoya mdf.

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Coley":w8fpbgzf said:
There doesn't seem like alot of glue area for tenons/wedges between the rails and stiles. If some of the doors will be opening I'd definitely look at having the panels fixed or tight to help brace the door- that's assuming the doors are to be painted and the panels will be from ultra stable tricoya mdf.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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You're an early bird as well ! Yes some of the doors will open. Lots of external dominos. Am a tad concerned about the thickness of the stiles but we are where we are...size is determined by those window ovals now.

Actually there are rebates down the stiles for the glass and so a reasonable amount of glue area with the rails (rebated to match). The more I think about it the more I'm tempted to glue and screw the fixed panels in situ.

Doors and panel will be painted (linseed ...whey hey !). The bottom panel is Medite External. Tricoya :o Do you think I'm made of money ? Bad enough shelling out a couple of sheets at £70 a time :lol:
 
Gluing and screwing will definitely help prevent the door dropping. £70 a sheet is cheap so must be fairly thin? Last time I checked they were after £130 a sheet for 18mm- but it's still cheap compared to gluing up panels and having to make allowances for movement.
Issues with my niece are causing the sleepless nights [emoji849]

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
How high are your doors and how thick? A few extra hinges and multi point locks if you're really concerned should keep them under control.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
Coley":3lh84fpu said:
Gluing and screwing will definitely help prevent the door dropping. £70 a sheet is cheap so must be fairly thin? Last time I checked they were after £130 a sheet for 18mm- but it's still cheap compared to gluing up panels and having to make allowances for movement.
Issues with my niece are causing the sleepless nights [emoji849]

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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18mm sheets. Big price variation :eusa-think:
 
Coley":2v47958b said:
How high are your doors and how thick? A few extra hinges and multi point locks if you're really concerned should keep them under control.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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2m high. 45mm thick. I was going to put some extra hinges on. Not sure about the multipoint locks as I've never fitted them plus they sound pricey. But do they stabilise the opening stile the same way a bunch of hinges do at t'other end ?
 
This is a price list for tricoya from 2018
5c8ed630dcb4363fa7d1426402081998.jpg


Your £70 a sheet is a bargain !!! Are you sure you didn't have 18mm external mdf?

Multipoint locks would help prevent the closing side from twisting, though thinking about it your Stiles probably wouldnt be big enough to take them.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
Ah..I see the confusion. My bad. I thought that I'd mentioned I was using Medite External.

Appreciate the advice re the stiles/multipoint locks.
 
I wonder if a window espagnolette will work for the doors ?
 
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