Workshop design (Finally Progress!)

[Crispylettuce]

I came across this forum, after being linked to Mike’s shed build project from elsewhere. I had started thinking about shed design for my new project, and Mike’s methods seemed to back up and enhance my other research!

Currently we have a 3mx3m garden shed that is damp and in a poor state. I have tried to patch it up in places, but come to the conclusion I need to start from scratch.

The new design will be a little bigger (~ 4m x 4m), and I intend to fit out the inside better so that I can have some dry, warm working area in addition to storage. I appreciate that storing damp garden tools and woodworking projects is not ideal, but needs must. It’s going to be close to the property boundary, so ill be restricted by the 2.5m height restriction – although my garden (and respective neighbours) has a split level that I could presumably use to my advantage.

I am still in the planning/design phase at the moment – looking at the position in the garden, and also internal useage to try and find a layout that works.

One of my initial questions was regarding the roof. Due to the height restrictions I was going to opt for a pent roof. Could anyone recommend any websites with a basic calculator to establish size of the roof trusses?

Sorry if I have posted in the wrong place!


Edit: latest image of the site

 

[Doug]

Re the garden tools could you not build a separate section within the shed perhaps accessed by its own external door? Apart from the obvious benefits it will add wall space for both hanging garden & workshop tools whilst keeping everything separate.

 

[Mike G]

I came across this forum, after being linked to Mike’s shed build project from elsewhere. I had started thinking about shed design for my new project, and Mike’s methods seemed to back up and enhance my other research!

Currently we have a 3mx3m garden shed that is damp and in a poor state. I have tried to patch it up in places, but come to the conclusion I need to start from scratch.

The new design will be a little bigger (~ 4m x 4m), and I intend to fit out the inside better so that I can have some dry, warm working area in addition to storage. I appreciate that storing damp garden tools and woodworking projects is not ideal, but needs must. It’s going to be close to the property boundary, so ill be restricted by the 2.5m height restriction – although my garden (and respective neighbours) has a split level that I could presumably use to my advantage.

I am still in the planning/design phase at the moment – looking at the position in the garden, and also internal useage to try and find a layout that works.

One of my initial questions was regarding the roof. Due to the height restrictions I was going to opt for a pent roof. Could anyone recommend any websites with a basic calculator to establish size of the roof trusses?

Sorry if I have posted in the wrong place!



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Welcome to the forum, CL.

Careful with the ground level thing, because the Permitted Development rules are all about the natural ground level around your building, so the neighbour's raised ground level isn't going to come to your aid (other than in reducing the likelihood that they'll complain).

As far as the roof goes, I'll calculate that for you. Bear in mind that the smaller the span the smaller the timbers and the easier the construction, so instead of going 4x4, you might consider going, say, 4.6 x 3.5 for the same area but an easier roof, if this fits with the ground available. I would definitely build a separate section for the garden kit, accessible from the outside. This wouldn't have to be big enough to walk in, particularly if you use double doors.

 

[Crispylettuce]

I was imagining trying to make an internal dividing wall to separate the garden tools, but still need to work out space they need!

With regards to the difference in ground levels, a neighbour one side has a higher ground level than the other. My garden is somewhat split as a result.

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[Wizard9999]

The new design will be a little bigger (~ 4m x 4m), and I intend to fit out the inside better so that I can have some dry, warm working area in addition to storage. I appreciate that storing damp garden tools and woodworking projects is not ideal, but needs must. It’s going to be close to the property boundary, so ill be restricted by the 2.5m height restriction – although my garden (and respective neighbours) has a split level that I could presumably use to my advantage.

Be careful to stay under 15m2 internal if you are within 1m of the boundary to avoid the need for building regs. Extensive discussion of these points on this thread (six pages long, but you can skim over it pretty quickly)...

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=1411&hilit=Log+cabin&start=25

Ground level can help, as the height is measured from the highest point of ground to the highest point of building and they do not need to be in the same place, so in my case the ground is 30cm higher at the back and I use this as the datum for the height at the front of the building. But as Mike says, it must be natural and it must be adjacent to the building, so for example a raised bed in the neighbour's garden won't help. If there is any risk of neighbours being concerned it obviously makes sense to slope the roof downwards towards the boundary so it is at its lowest point by the boundary.

Looking forward to watching this, so please keep posting.

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

Opening-of-conversation sketches:

 

[Crispylettuce]

Be careful to stay under 15m2 internal if you are within 1m of the boundary to avoid the need for building regs.

I was looking to be 1m away from the boundary - just - to give me most flexibility in design. I'll check out the past over lunch!

In truth I still need to think how I'm going to use the space. I don't currently have a workshop/space, so have always had to work outside or adopt the spare room for projects. I'm aiming to build it as large as my wife will allow me too as her planning requirements are stricter than most councils!

I'll try and make a quick sketch at lunch.

My initial thinking was a combined workshop and (dry/clean) storage, with a separate area for lawnmower/garden tools - I need to get the tape measure out this weekend to see how much I need.

Really appreciate your responses already - not all forums are positive!

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[Crispylettuce]

So here is a very quick working plan - although as I mention above, I need to get the tape measure out!

My initial idea was to have a garden tool cupboard, primarily as it would probably make the build a bit easier, but I can see why you might want an external door as you have Mike.

Additionally, I was toying with the idea of putting a lot of things on casters to try and make the space as flexible add possible.

(Hopefully my picture links work - I can't seem to preview on the app I'm using!)

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[AndyP]

Highly recommend a separate door for the tool store otherwise it is inevitable that there will be storage creep not to mention muddy boots into the working area.

Nearly everything in my workshop is on castors. Even one of the benches can be levered up and castors fitted underneath. Has only been moved this way twice when I needed the extra space to run 3m boards through table saw and planer thicknesser.

I know woodworkers who have special flaps built into the walls/doors to allow long pieces of timber to be feed through machines. Well worth thinking about this now.

 

[Wizard9999]

So here is a very quick working plan - although as I mention above, I need to get the tape measure out!

My initial idea was to have a garden tool cupboard, primarily as it would probably make the build a bit easier, but I can see why you might want an external door as you have Mike.

Additionally, I was toying with the idea of putting a lot of things on casters to try and make the space as flexible add possible.

Pictures showing up fine. Three thoughts / questions:

1) Looks like you could easily put an external door into the tool store area, based on your layout.

2) Are you planning to use hand tools only, you do not seem to have any machinery shown on your plan? Not a criticism, just as far as you can best to be clear on what you want / need before you build.

3) Are you digging out from the level shown as ground level on your sketch in order to get extra height, not clear if that is the plan or whether the ground level shown is part of the split level aspect you mentioned initially?

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

Don't tuck your bench into the short area, unless all you ever handle are, say, models. Stick it somewhere where longer pieces of wood can be worked on.

Like you say, this is all meaningless until you establish the area you can use for this building. You'll never regret erring on the side of bigger-than-you-think-you'll-need at this stage. If you go for "I think I can possibly manage to make that space work", you'll be building an extension on it in a few years time.

 

[Crispylettuce]

2) Are you planning to use hand tools only, you do not seem to have any machinery shown on your plan? Not a criticism, just as far as you can best to be clear on what you want / need before you build.

Don't worry, I don't take it as a criticism. At the moment I don't have many large tools having never had the space. Eventually, I am planning to get a planar/thicknesser, and a bandsaw. I already have a pillar drill (not a free-standing) plus various hand-held tools ill be making more permanent stations for. I'll edit my basic layout tomorrow with some extra details.

3) Are you digging out from the level shown as ground level on your sketch in order to get extra height, not clear if that is the plan or whether the ground level shown is part of the split level aspect you mentioned initially?

Yes, the ground level shown it (mostly) the existing ground level. The current old shed is standing in this area, so there wouldn't be too much extra to dig out.

 

[Wizard9999]

Yes, the ground level shown it (mostly) the existing ground level. The current old shed is standing in this area, so there wouldn't be too much extra to dig out.

Not wishing to be alarmist but don't underestimate the effort to dig out say 30cm over a roughly 15m2 area. Then if that is the level you want the final floor level to be you are likely to go down a further 30cm (10cm of concrete on top of 5cm sand blinding on top of 15cm of hardcore). So 60cm down in total over 15m2 gives you roughly 10m3 of soil to move, and I understand a cubic meter of soil is about 2.5 tons so that is 25 tons of soil to move. Having 'benefitted' from the experience of having dug out the base for my workshop by hand and barrowed it the length of my garden (had no choice as working around a mass of large roots) I would suggest hiring a digger, dumper, or whatever else is appropriate. It will accelerate things and save your back!

Terry.

 

[Rod]

I haven't got any links and it was a long time ago but there used to be lots of suggested workshop layouts on the web - showing the space required for various machines and their best locations.
None of them agreeing with each other but it will give you plenty of ideas.

Rod

 

[Crispylettuce]

Have edited my quick plan in an earlier post to include some approx positions for machines/tools.
In reality, I'm planning on making it as flexible as possible but mounting everything on casters.

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[Crispylettuce]

The planning department (my wife!) has dictated the new patio takes priority over a shed, so that is where my focus now is!

Good news is that we have talked about switching things around in our garden and possibly moving the proposed workshop to a different (bigger!) location.

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[Wizard9999]

Sounds good, the bigger part that is not the patio taking priority. Go as big as you can, but unless that means really big I would still look to have a degree of mobility for your kit.

Terry.

 

[Chris Bates]

Hello Chris,

I've just had a look at your workshop design.

I looked into the almost flat roof like your design to avoid planning permission. My garage, with a flat roof, which is 7' 6' /2.3M high externally, feels restricted inside because of its height. I went down the planning permission route, drew my own plans and paid my £160. Planning dept at the local council were easier to deal with than anticipated.

I think everything else has been covered by others.

Chris

 

[Crispylettuce]

I'm currently finishing off a patio, before I make any progress. Illness and bad weather have left me further behind than hoped. In any case, were now considering where to fit everything in our garden and are playing with the idea of a summerhouse, which will have to wait until next year!

We may have to go down the placing route for the summerhouse.

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[Crispylettuce]

Hello Chris,

I've just had a look at your workshop design.

I looked into the almost flat roof like your design to avoid planning permission. My garage, with a flat roof, which is 7' 6' /2.3M high externally, feels restricted inside because of its height. I went down the planning permission route, drew my own plans and paid my £160. Planning dept at the local council were easier to deal with than anticipated.

I think everything else has been covered by others.

Chris

Was yours near a boundary then presumably? What did you end up with?

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[Tusses]

Mine is 5m x 6m . roof is "nearly flat" box section galv steel sheets with a 1ft drop over the 5m direction
2.7m at the high end, which is where I store my full sheets upright
I've run a business out of it for 15yrs.

Just running out of room, as I've added a fair bit of new kit over the last couple of yrs

so I'm about to build another , the same, to house my metalworking machines and car resto gear, which should make this one much more useable again

No problems of feeling boxed in .. I have half the south facing side floor to roof twinwall poly and double doors.

I have a log burner .. but in the winter, any sun heats the shop plenty.
In the summer, I have trees that shade the south side.

HTH bscene-drinkingcheers:

 

[Crispylettuce]

Mine is 5m x 6m . roof is "nearly flat" box section galv steel sheets....

No problems of feeling boxed in .. I have half the south facing side floor to roof twinwall poly and double doors.

HTH bscene-drinkingcheers:

Sounds like an intriguing build. Got any photos?

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[Tusses]

not got any recent pics ... here one that shows the slope of the roof

 

[Tusses]

and the only one I can find of the front .. pre-trees

and I still haven't added the cladding ! lol
Mine is just function 1st

My wifes summerhouse is on the right, 8'x12' .. that one got finished .. obviously !

 

[Rod]

Are all those vehicles yours? [emoji50]

Rod

 

[Tusses]

Are all those vehicles yours? [emoji50]

Rod

ahem

I have a thing for old cars :lol:

 

[Crispylettuce]

That appears to be an understatement!!

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[Tusses]

haha

well .. the "shed" was made for working on cars

and now it's been taken over with wood working stuff, I need to make another

 

[Crispylettuce]

I'm just looking to start picking this up again and get designing in a bit more detail. I fear that the new shed won't get "born" until next year as the next approved job is swapping the open fire out for a woodburner!

We have now decided to move the greenhouse too which has given some different options for sizes and locations.

 

[Crispylettuce]

I'm looking for advice on windows - are they difficult to make? Or am i better looking for a unit on eBay? If buying second hand windows, anything to look out for?

 

[Mike G]

Tour the local builder's skips first. Then maybe eBay, or your local paper. People are always trying to get rid of old windows.

 

[Rod]

There were several windows and doors being dumped the other day at our local HWRC.

Rod

 

[Crispylettuce]

Well its been over a year since my first post regarding this - and still not progress!

In the time in-between we have built a patio, erected fences, dug out hedging, put in a driveway, decorated bedrooms, installed a wood burner..... it seems I needed reminding what the priorities were!

The current shed is still damp, draughty and in need of replacing!

I'm still hopefully to get the shed done this year - but I'm acutely aware that time is marching on. My biggest logistical problem at the moment is trying to work out what to do with the stuff that is currently in the shed - as the new shed will be sited in the same position.

I had also been looking into the possibility of using SIPs as a method of speeding up the shed build such that I can get everything back into the shed asap, but I think I have now decided against this due to cost and also the worry of being able to safely manoeuvre the panels over difficult ground, most likely on my own.

 

[Crispylettuce]

Any suggestions to speed up the build process??

I need a new concrete base as the current one is too small
+ Is it acceptable to just shutter off the extra base needed and pour concrete in to extend the current slab?
+ Would it be possible to then use a levelling compound (or similar) to tidy up the concrete floor as the existing slab is not a great finish?
+ Would a trench and ring foundation with a suspended floor be simpler?

Insulation
+ with a shed/workshop insulated as per Mike's diagrams, is any additional heating required?

As always, thanks.

 

[timothyedoran]

Dunno about the base

Re insulation. Insulation does not make heat. Insulation traps the heat inside and slows how quickly the temperature changes. You would still need to provide a source of heating and maybe cooling.

 

[Mike G]

......I need a new concrete base as the current one is too small
+ Is it acceptable to just shutter off the extra base needed and pour concrete in to extend the current slab?

If the existing slab is of the correct thickness (ie min 150mm), in the correct location, and otherwise sound, then yes, extending it is viable. To make a connection, you'll need to excavate for the new slab, then drill for starter bars into the edge of the old slab. I am not an engineer, so the following is just my instinct, but I suggest 12mm reinforcing rod every 600 to 750mm starting and ending say 150 from the ends. You drill an oversize hole as deep as the drill bit will allow, thoroughly clean it, then clean it again, then squeeze in some two part epoxy ("chemical anchor"), and push your rod in, leaving 250/ 300mm sticking out to cut your ankles to shreds sorry cast into the new slab.

+ Would it be possible to then use a levelling compound (or similar) to tidy up the concrete floor as the existing slab is not a great finish?

Yes, or a screed or floating floor over the whole lot.

+ Would a trench and ring foundation with a suspended floor be simpler?

Not really. You might have to, though, if the slab isn't good enough to extend.

Insulation
+ with a shed/workshop insulated as per Mike's diagrams, is any additional heating required?

Yes. I use a small electric heater. Others use little woodburning stoves. It won't need much heating, but it will certainly need some if you intend using it year round.

 

[Crispylettuce]

Method of extending the slab makes sense - i was thinking along similar lines and is perfectly achievable!

 

[Crispylettuce]

My current project is laying some paths in the veg patch - and I'm trying to make some progress on the shed design at the same time.

I have been looking into some cladding alternatives for my building, and wondered if anyone had any suggestions?

To maximise my site I was contemplating positioning the shed close to two of the boundaries, so I was looking for a 'fit and forget' solution, at least for these two sides.

I have come across some composite boards but there is a lot of choice. Anyone had any good/bad experience with these?

 

[Mike G]

Eternit boards are a reasonable substitute for timber feather edge boards, and are a cement based product, lasting virtually indefinitely. You can work them with normal woodworking tools (but I'd buy a £5 hand-saw for the job).

 

[ScotlandtheDave]

I used cedral weatherlap to clad the bottom two courses of my shed. I'm on Tapatalk but if you look for Dave's shed project in general woodworking forum you'll find it.

I found the stuff quite good to work with and used a laminate floor cutter to make the cuts. It worked really well! Product is not cheap though - 5*2.5 *2 courses was about 200 quid. I think you'd need 8 or ten courses for full size shed.