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Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!
Staircase upgrade - ...
- Thread starter RogerS
- Start date
A short thread on how I moulded the corner turn is here
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6785&p=110521#p110521
A milestone. I have no more spindle moulding to do. No more wreaths to make. Still a lot of fettling, filing, carving and sanding but we're getting there.
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=6785&p=110521#p110521
A milestone. I have no more spindle moulding to do. No more wreaths to make. Still a lot of fettling, filing, carving and sanding but we're getting there.
RogerS":14i7wk3j said:
:text-bravo: :eusa-clap:
bscene-drinkingcheers: Have a beer on me, a deserved one at that. A real headland moment.
Bit more progress. Landing wreath finished and fitted to the landing straight.
And at the other end, the 90 quarter-turn glued and fitted and the rough cut made with a fine Fein blade for the channel to take the spindles. Had to be done this way. No way of fixing the quarter-turn properly so I could use a router and a trammel.
To complement this, at the bottom of the spindles I need a quarter-turn made up of the bottom housing.
Gash bit of wood, router and trammel to hog out the inside and start the outer edge
And the inside edge
Split to the required height on the bandsaw
and out it pops ready for hand-moulding
and a paper template to make some fillet strips. No idea where the spindles will end up yet so I'll make a complete piece and cut to taste.
And at the other end, the 90 quarter-turn glued and fitted and the rough cut made with a fine Fein blade for the channel to take the spindles. Had to be done this way. No way of fixing the quarter-turn properly so I could use a router and a trammel.
To complement this, at the bottom of the spindles I need a quarter-turn made up of the bottom housing.
Gash bit of wood, router and trammel to hog out the inside and start the outer edge
And the inside edge
Split to the required height on the bandsaw
and out it pops ready for hand-moulding
and a paper template to make some fillet strips. No idea where the spindles will end up yet so I'll make a complete piece and cut to taste.
So, back in the saddle and time to assemble most of it. One can fiddle around forever.
The turns are more challenging. The first quarter turn is easy as it's flat - top and bottom. (Ignore that bit of walnut...it doesn't go there)
The next quarter turn with a small wreath fortunately sat nicely on the landing and top step. The bottom rebated groove is only a 'proof of concept' to see if I can simply mortice out the bottoms for the spindles, insert the three spindles and then slide the whole assembly into position. By simply morticing the sockets will make things easier as no fiddly curved infill pieces to make.
But the tops of the three corner spindles is a bit of a nightmare - especially the one on the right as the top is a compound angle and I'm struggling to find a good way of getting this measured....any suggestions very welcome especially as we move on down to the main wreath.
The turns are more challenging. The first quarter turn is easy as it's flat - top and bottom. (Ignore that bit of walnut...it doesn't go there)
The next quarter turn with a small wreath fortunately sat nicely on the landing and top step. The bottom rebated groove is only a 'proof of concept' to see if I can simply mortice out the bottoms for the spindles, insert the three spindles and then slide the whole assembly into position. By simply morticing the sockets will make things easier as no fiddly curved infill pieces to make.
But the tops of the three corner spindles is a bit of a nightmare - especially the one on the right as the top is a compound angle and I'm struggling to find a good way of getting this measured....any suggestions very welcome especially as we move on down to the main wreath.
RogerS":26vdfz1f said:
suggestion...A short spindle or batten with 4 long thin metal angles (say 8mmx8mm x 200mm) held onto the corners of the batten at the top end by elastic bands. Slide the angles until they touch and you will have your cutting angle. Might need to taper the ends so you get point contact.
AJB Temple
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Well. I admire you sticking at this for what seems like years and years Roger. It has definitely convinced me that the best way to make a complex stair handrail is a) get someone else to do it, of b) get it done in metal that is malleable or c) move house, possibly to a bungalow. 
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Possibly not the right thing to be saying but from the first time I saw that staircase, long before you said anything about changing it, I really liked it.
Bob
Bob
9fingers":3g1r9bmg said:
I agree, except for that awful double newel post on the corner.
Great job though Roger.
Sheffield Tony
Nordic Pine
RogerS":161fktaf said:NOW
I admit I know nothing about staircase design. And I know this is probably a terrible time to ask. But without any newel posts :shock:, what provides strength to that hand rail ? It looks a bit alarmingly lightweight to me. If I lean on the top handrail do I and up with a scene looking like a bar room brawl in a cowboy movie ?
Sheffield Tony":22antcov said:RogerS":22antcov said:NOW
I admit I know nothing about staircase design. And I know this is probably a terrible time to ask. But without any newel posts :shock:, what provides strength to that hand rail ? It looks a bit alarmingly lightweight to me. If I lean on the top handrail do I and up with a scene looking like a bar room brawl in a cowboy movie ?
A fair point but we'll never lean on it or get drunk or throw drunken parties
If in the future someone else does decide to tempt fate and swing from it well, the Darwin Award organisation is always looking for new members.
Sheffield Tony
Nordic Pine
I don't think how you plan to use it is relevant; its purpose is to prevent nasty accidents. You could extend the same argument to justify leaving it completely open ! And a part of the justification of building regs is to ensure safety, within reasonable working assumptions, for future users. I can't see where the structural strength in that handrail comes from. Just perhaps worth thinking on.
Rodger, love the improvements you have made on the balustrading, for me it's a 100% improvement.
In my past life I worked on a few Georgian FBH's and the way they strengthened the balustrading without newels was to incorporate secret metal balustrades with tee bars top and bottom that where secured into string and handrail.
For me the delight of these old staircases was there movement and noises they made which gave them character.
Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using Tapatalk
In my past life I worked on a few Georgian FBH's and the way they strengthened the balustrading without newels was to incorporate secret metal balustrades with tee bars top and bottom that where secured into string and handrail.
For me the delight of these old staircases was there movement and noises they made which gave them character.
Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using Tapatalk
Bit of a conundrum around the bottom wreath. :eusa-think:
It's because of the drop in level between the two flights and the fact that the wreath, unsurprisingly, lies outside the strings of the two flights.
Very hard to judge the actual line and so I've hung four lines where spindles will go. The lengths are such that the line of 'urns' at the bottom of the spindles follows a curve round. I think that that is the right approach but there are complications as I see it. You can just make out the marks I made on a couple of lines and show where the urn will be.
A is close the the side of the stringer and I could have a small (carved? turned to match the profile of the handrail? walnut ? ...the strings will be painted Perhaps a larger version of the urn on the spindle ?) that would support the bottom of the spindle.
B serendipitously actually touches that 'newel' post and so could be domino'd and glued in place
It is C and D that are the tricky ones. The best that I can think of is to extend the bottom square of the spindle so that the bottoms terminate at the same level as each other and on supports fixed to the side of the string ? or staggered to follow the angle of the string ? again two small turned (?) supports ...the same as that at A ?
Thoughts welcome.
It's because of the drop in level between the two flights and the fact that the wreath, unsurprisingly, lies outside the strings of the two flights.
Very hard to judge the actual line and so I've hung four lines where spindles will go. The lengths are such that the line of 'urns' at the bottom of the spindles follows a curve round. I think that that is the right approach but there are complications as I see it. You can just make out the marks I made on a couple of lines and show where the urn will be.
A is close the the side of the stringer and I could have a small (carved? turned to match the profile of the handrail? walnut ? ...the strings will be painted Perhaps a larger version of the urn on the spindle ?) that would support the bottom of the spindle.
B serendipitously actually touches that 'newel' post and so could be domino'd and glued in place
It is C and D that are the tricky ones. The best that I can think of is to extend the bottom square of the spindle so that the bottoms terminate at the same level as each other and on supports fixed to the side of the string ? or staggered to follow the angle of the string ? again two small turned (?) supports ...the same as that at A ?
Thoughts welcome.
Mike G
Petrified Pine
Even if you can sort out something for those spindles to sit on, it's going to be a funny old view walking up the stairs to see the ballusters gently leave the string, and to have a bare string and newel-top on view. It's not impossible you might end up with a gap somewhere of greater than 99mm, too.
Thanks chaps. I could be wrong but I think that the type of wreath predicates that it must 'leave the line' as it were.
The bare stringer looks OK, I think, as will the top of the newel as I'll probably put a small 'feature' flat of walnut on top of it. Depends what CDA decides.
This was our first idea and based on the same moulding as on the skirting boards but upside-down.
It didn't look right, though, in position. CDA thought a corbel would look better, found a suitable design which she wanted simplified and this is it.
We think it hits the spot.
The bare stringer looks OK, I think, as will the top of the newel as I'll probably put a small 'feature' flat of walnut on top of it. Depends what CDA decides.
This was our first idea and based on the same moulding as on the skirting boards but upside-down.
It didn't look right, though, in position. CDA thought a corbel would look better, found a suitable design which she wanted simplified and this is it.
We think it hits the spot.
Really fascinating and it shows that one can't necessarily see how things will pan put until a bit later on. Just as well I've made things 'tweakable'.
This first spindle and support looked fine.
But after fitting the two 'extended' spindles,. I suddenly realised that that first one also needs to be an 'extended' one. I only noticed it from upstairs.
As it is, it's just plain wrong and once noticed, becomes more apparent at floor level
This first spindle and support looked fine.
But after fitting the two 'extended' spindles,. I suddenly realised that that first one also needs to be an 'extended' one. I only noticed it from upstairs.
As it is, it's just plain wrong and once noticed, becomes more apparent at floor level
AJB Temple
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Alternative suggestion: instead of using those support blocks, mount a horizontal "shelf" instead and at the turn point on the stairs curve it round so that it follows the line of the handrail and then blends into the side panel on the next flight. The spindles then drop into or onto the "shelf".
I think this might look much less contrived and will deal neatly with the turn point where you just have one spindle over the side on the half landing between the first and the second flight. The way the rail turns looks nice, and the bottom of the spindles needs to mirror that ....is my suggestion.
I think this might look much less contrived and will deal neatly with the turn point where you just have one spindle over the side on the half landing between the first and the second flight. The way the rail turns looks nice, and the bottom of the spindles needs to mirror that ....is my suggestion.
AJB Temple
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I'm away at the moment Roger. If it can wait until Sunday I will do it.
In the meantime, if you imagine (for simplicity) a plank fixed the the vertical part (but at 90 degrees to it) of the vertical piece of wood (sorry don't know the name) where the spindles joint the first flight. This makes that section wider and you can fashion a curve where it joins the second flight, and will taper into the side panel on the second flight, collecting the stray spindles as it goes.
The idea is that it echoes your fine work on the rail and hides the angularity of the bottom section.
Adrian
In the meantime, if you imagine (for simplicity) a plank fixed the the vertical part (but at 90 degrees to it) of the vertical piece of wood (sorry don't know the name) where the spindles joint the first flight. This makes that section wider and you can fashion a curve where it joins the second flight, and will taper into the side panel on the second flight, collecting the stray spindles as it goes.
The idea is that it echoes your fine work on the rail and hides the angularity of the bottom section.
Adrian